Fog and Cloud Harvesting: Solving Water Scarcity with Atmospheric Innovation ft. Tatiana Estevez (Permalution)

While emissions often dominate the sustainability conversation, today we’re shifting the spotlight to an issue just as critical—water. With climate change intensifying droughts and disrupting global water cycles, it’s time we talk about solutions that are as innovative as they are essential.

On this episode of The Resilience Report, we’re joined by Tatiana Estevez, founder and CEO of Permalution—a climate tech company pioneering the use of fog and cloud harvesting as a viable, scalable water source. From explaining how Permalution’s technology works to illustrating its impact through powerful on-the-ground stories, Tatiana brings clarity to a topic that’s both deeply technical and deeply human.

We explore how fog harvesting could reshape global water security, what “democratizing access to water” really means, and how Permalution is already supplying water to vulnerable communities around the world. Tatiana also opens up about the funding realities of building a cleantech startup, her work empowering women in tech through her nonprofit Tech Quiero, and her long-term vision for water resilience that is as community-driven as it is forward-looking.

I personally loved this conversation. The water space is an area that I am less familiar with. So I invite you to join me as we dive into this critical topic.

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[Host: Lauren Scott] Welcome back to another episode of the Resilience Report.

Today is going to be a fun one for our listeners because our community at the Resilience Report really loves hearing from people who are disrupting their respective industries in really creative ways and trying to find new solutions to some of the world's biggest problems. And today we have no exception and someone who is certainly shining a light on a much needed area. And we have a founder and CEO of an incredible company - welcome to the show, Tatiana.

[Guest: Tatiana Estevez] Thank you so much, Lauren. Thanks for having me, having us, Permalution, on the podcast.

We'll definitely want to dive into Permalution and your different solutions there.

But before we do so, I maybe want to level set with our audience, because I think many of us, myself included, working in the sustainability space, I feel like so much of the story has been focused on emissions over the past few years. And the world is starting to really wake up and realize that companies, communities, we also really need to be conscious as water as a resource. And one thing or one area that we're seeing or consideration is that of water harvesting. And so this is maybe a newer idea. I think even though probably in some ways we've been doing it for generations, could you help us to understand at a high level what water harvesting really is?

Yeah, so water harvesting would be the collection of different water sources. What fog and cloud water collection or water harvesting, which is what we do at Permalution, falls under is atmospheric water harvesting or atmospheric water conversion. So we take water, in our case from the sky, from clouds and fog, and we turn it into water. There are different practices. Rainwater is also water harvesting. Atmospheric water through humidity is also water harvesting. So there are different types. And our main focus is fog and clouds.

I've had a water barrel before for rain. We can capture it that way. But I've never really thought of capturing fog. Could you speak to what that means? Looks like? Because I feel like it's maybe so intangible. I think we can all feel holding rain, but maybe not so much holding fog.

So as rain is considered vertical precipitation, fog and clouds are considered horizontal precipitation. And we can collect up to three times more water than rain. By definition, fog and clouds are made of tiny particles that are suspended in the air. And we're on a mission to introduce this new water source through our world-class technology that helps us collect the water that otherwise, unlike rain, fog and clouds, if we don't collect it, it goes back into the atmosphere through temperature change and is lost from the local hydric cycle.

I would just maybe love to double-click for a second there as to what even brought you into this area, because this is definitely not something—I think we can all tangibly hold rain—but then you were looking at this at a whole other level. So what made you get into this area originally?

That's a great question. And it's quite an interesting story. After university, I graduated from Ottawa University. I went to California with my backpack. It was always my dream to go to California after my studies. And when I landed there in San Francisco, it was one of the worst drought seasons in the state's history. It was 2015. And I remember being shocked—first, it was the first time I was in a drought-impacted area. And second, I was shocked from listening to the stories of the United States losing over $250 billion because of irrigation cuts and economic losses. What shocked me the most was hearing that farmers were taking their lives because of this. So I remember having all these heavy thoughts in my brain and looking out the window, and I couldn't see anything because of the fog in San Francisco. So that's when I had a bit of my eureka moment. I said, okay, why are we not using this water source? Technically, fog and clouds are tons of water that pass over our heads. And that's when I started with the idea of "let's milk clouds" and use the water for different applications around the world. It's what we're doing today.

It's so fascinating and I think just makes us look at our options in a completely different way. And to your point, the reality is we're experiencing these extreme weather conditions and climate change, and it's really just intensifying with time. California is a perfect example of that. How do you see these new solutions playing a role in supporting these problems as we're increasingly seeing water-strapped areas, whether it is California or elsewhere around the world? What role do you see this type of new technology playing in providing hope?

We see it as a very central solution for all the trends that we see in climate, national security, and resource resilience. It’s a solution that can adapt to both environmental and socio-political challenges. One of the things that really resonates with people is how this mimics nature—like the redwoods in California that can grow so large partly because they capture fog. Their needles collect moisture from the air, which then drips down to their roots. That natural water capture helps sustain ecosystems even during long dry seasons.

We see this as part of a broader shift toward decentralizing water access. Rather than always relying on massive infrastructure projects or vulnerable sources like groundwater, we can now create localized water hubs that are more adaptable and climate-resilient. Our technology doesn’t require energy, so we can deploy it in areas off-grid or with very limited resources.

In the next decade, I think these kinds of decentralized, nature-inspired solutions will be critical to closing the gap for communities most affected by climate change. Fog harvesting is one of those options that, until recently, was overlooked—but we believe it will play a vital role in the future of water security.

I love the way that you're aligning this with the way nature works. I can definitely picture the redwoods and how it was able to kind of capture that moisture on its own and grow to that magnitude. If, let's say, we were explaining it to, we'll say, my 10-year-old nephew, how would you explain your tech setup when you're going in onto a site? Because I know you've been able to set up all around the world. So what would that look like at a very, very high level, either for a 10-year-old or maybe just someone like myself who is less deep in the space?

Yes, absolutely. And please feel free to interrupt me if I get very technical. Our technology is separated in three units or three steps. First, we have what we call the fog atlas. This is an algorithm that pinpoints where the equation of fog or clouds meet in a region for us to deploy our solution or to collect it as a water source. So once we have these hot spots identified by our algorithm or fog spots, we set up the second unit of technology. It's called the water radar. And this is a set of sensors that measures the identified point and tells us how much water we're going to get from fog and clouds versus how much water from rain, what is the quality of the water, what are the estimated yields. We build a cost benefit analysis for that particular point. 

And then the third unit is the fog collectors, which are these huge membranes with hydrophilic properties, that once the fog or the cloud touches the membrane, it forces it to adhere, the droplets start building bigger and bigger until they fall into a gutter, and then depending on the application point—an irrigation system, a cistern, artificial water mass, greenhouse, filtration system, etc. 

That is really helpful, and I think we can all visualize that. You know, when we've had humidity gather on a fabric, if you go camping, that sort of thing on your tent, that it's collecting those droplets and pulling that all together. And I know a big part of your work is really looking at democratizing access to water. And I think that is a real reality of these different weather patterns. We're seeing it unfairly impacting certain communities over others. So how do you weave that value into the work that you're doing as well?

So keeping in mind the mission by which the whole Permalution story began in California and what the main objective was, yes, we're very aligned with democratizing or introducing a new water source to the world. And especially with the mindset of not leaving anyone behind. I know that it can get very tempting to sell to those who have the most money. We had situations where we could have just turned into another water bottle producing company, which is not the main focus for us. We don't want to become a new problem to society. If we rethink the water bottles in a sustainable way and so on, it could be very interesting. We're trying to focus as much as possible as a startup. But yes, we make sure that our projects have an impact. We make sure that we also quantify and measure how it will affect future generations, how it will affect the ecosystems that we are affecting or impacting while developing or deploying our solutions in the terrain. 

So yes, it is very important for us. It's something that the whole executive team has at heart. We were quite devastated to have some of our most impactful projects being put on hold because of the old USAID World Wildlife Foundation holds that happened at the Washington level since the beginning of the year. We are now thinking of opening our own foundation so we can fund our own projects for humanitarian ecosystem development, conservation, and so on, while focusing on projects for corporates, ESG agendas, and the big players and industries that also need our solution. So it's about finding that balance of, yes, being financially sustainable, but also leaving a better world behind.

It is really striking that balance, I think, for so many companies as we're trying to find these positive solutions. At the same time, we need to stay afloat. So I think that's a beautiful balance that you're trying to strike there. Do you have any examples of any communities that you've worked with or success stories that you can share as well?

Yes, our success story, which was our first project, is still running and in the process of being expanded as well. It was for the conservation of wild orchids, in particular two species that are on the brink of extinction in Mexico because of induced wildfires from illegal avocado plantations. Also, because the few remaining ones are being sold on the black market. That is one of the problems we were solving with our solution. We set up our fog collectors in a natural protected area in Mexico with the forest department. We started reproducing these units of orchids, replacing them back into their ecosystem or natural habitat. We've been having a 75% rate of survival so far, and we have reinstated over 7,000 units—not only of these two orchids, but other ones too—back into their ecosystem. We got a recommendation letter from the government. We heard some really nice stories that spawned from that project as well. Now we are getting a request for an expansion, and we're looking to replicate it also for other regions and ecosystems that can use another water source to combat the problems they are facing.

There are so many layers to that challenge as well. We have a lot of our listeners who are either business leaders or entrepreneurs. And we do create a safe space where we can share some challenges on this podcast. What would you say has been one of—or maybe one of your current—challenges that you're facing? It could be technological or, it sounds to me, maybe from a funding perspective based on current legislation. What is one of the challenges that you are facing? And are there any learnings from that that you could share with our listeners that maybe if they're going through something similar?

Yes, one of the challenges for us is that water is a very highly regulated industry. So we have to be very careful how we approach our market entry and mitigate the risk of our technology as much as we can. We work with the right people and departments in government so we can do our first installation in a new region. For example, in the U.S., one of our big challenges is that in many states, it’s illegal to collect rainwater.

In California, you can only collect what falls on the rooftop; the rest belongs to the government. When we started in the U.S., there were farmers asking, can you make sure we don’t get our technology taken away, or fined, or worse? So we had to prove that unlike rain, if we don’t collect fog, it goes back into the atmosphere through temperature change and is lost. We need to collect it so it can be reestablished back.

Nowadays, there’s less than 5% of the tree mass that can do the job of reintroducing fog and clouds back into the ecosystem. If you want to discuss why it’s illegal to collect rain in the United States, I can explain. About 75% of the West Coast gets their water from groundwater pumping. The only way to replenish those basins is through rain. Each year they get less than 10% of the replenishment they need. So they are trying to keep every drop for aquifer replenishment. That’s one of the main reasons. But it is quite a challenge to overcome.

But that just demonstrates, I think, further the benefit of working with fog, because to your point, it would not go down at that level. It would just go back up to the clouds. So that's fascinating. Interesting. Are you working on any projects at the moment? I'm sure all your projects are fascinating. But are you working on any special projects right now that you're particularly excited about?

Yes, so we set up at the beginning of the year our first project in the Middle East, in Abu Dhabi. We are in the middle of nowhere in the desert, and we’ve been collecting water successfully. Our membranes don’t require energy to run, so we can go into fully remote areas. That has been a very successful case. We are literally making history. There have been a lot of studies on the fog of the Emirates, but the first fog water collection project has now been deployed by us.

It took a lot of effort and we had our champion over there who helped us get the project going. It has proven that our technology is very adaptable and necessary for those regions as well. Our project with this utility company in the Middle East has so far been a success.

One of the projects I’m really excited about is a new application we’re starting this year. We’re still tapping into floating water, but now we’re doing industrial steam recycling, starting with data centers. So from naturally horizontal occurring fog, we’re starting now with vertically induced steam—from the cooling towers of data centers. We’re recycling it and putting it back into operations. A really cool project coming up.

We've spoken to a few data center leaders on this podcast, and the computing power is just exploding to a point where we're trying to keep up. I come from the world of cooling those spaces and we know that, you know, we used to cool at the data center level and then it was the room level and then rack level. Now it's down to the individual unit level because it's so powerful. But water is such an important part of this. 

And I know also from our listeners, again, they're more coming from that entrepreneurial space, another topic we've had a few questions on is: as people are looking to generate funding or financial support, especially in the cleantech space, it certainly seems to ebb and flow depending on political alignment, but also just kind of what's trendy, if you will. How would you recommend our listeners approach it? Maybe in general, and then do you have any approaches that you also lean into when it comes to times like we are right now, where maybe the economy is not doing as well and might be a little bit less stable? Is there any messaging approach that you lean into that has worked for you and that you would recommend to others?

Yes, absolutely. From the top of my head, there are two main comments on that. First, something I would have liked to tell my younger entrepreneur self when she started this whole Permalution journey: I was focusing on having the right logo, the right image, the right website, the right tagline—making sure everything looked perfect and the MVP made sense.

I realized that everything changed when we got our first sale. If I could tell entrepreneurs to focus on something, it would be: focus on your first sale. When we got our first sale, the tables turned completely. We were offered funding more easily. It was easier to get grants to match the project we were doing. Showing traction helped with investment as well.

So yes, I would focus more on getting that first sale done than making everything look pretty and perfect.

Also, in terms of grants, here in Canada and Quebec, we have wonderful opportunities for entrepreneurs and business support. Some of this support takes time to build. Some entrepreneurs tell me they don’t have the bandwidth to start applying for funding or don’t know who they’ll hire. But starting early, looking at timelines, and understanding requirements has been key.

I usually look three to six months ahead of hiring to align grants and funding structures. Mapping out timelines, budgets, and aligning that with deployment calendars and pilot plans has helped us survive the long sales cycles typical of the mining and water sectors.

Another thing I would have liked to know is to quantify the problem, not just the solution. When we talk to sectors like mining, we explain not just the benefits but the risks avoided. For instance, how much it costs to have a lawsuit over contaminated water. That changes the way our tech is perceived—not just in terms of gain, but also in terms of risk mitigation. That attracts a lot of attention.

And I think that also maybe de-risks it as well. You're not doing this just out of the kindness of your heart—not you personally—but these companies you're partnering with. I think sometimes the sustainability lens can feel like it’s just maybe a little virtuous. However, if you can actually show the business value of de-risking, providing different revenue sources, it absolutely encourages buy-in, regardless of where we are in the interest cycle, I think, at that higher level. That's fascinating. 

Your expertise has also shined through in a different way in that you, beyond founding one company, you've also founded another organization called Te Quiero. Can you speak to the genesis behind that? What made you want to create it?

Yes, absolutely. After my backpacking trip to California, which was supposed to be two to three weeks and turned into a year, I returned home and got offered a job in Mexico through Global Affairs Canada. It was a one-year contract. I used to work for the federal government before going to California, so I accepted. I spent a year working with the metropolitan government doing projects like turning vacant lots into green spaces and urban gardens.

I developed an app with a team to exchange fruits and vegetables from gardens—like a Tinder but for produce. Then I got offered a job at Bosch Mexico at their innovation center in Guadalajara. Once I started working on technical teams, I realized I was often the only woman. In one meeting, it was me and 14 male engineers. I noticed there was a big gap in Latin America. Women only represent about 13 to 16% of programmers in the region.

So I started Tech Quiero in Mexico, a community for women not already in tech. There are already groups for engineers or designers, but I wanted to support the 85 to 90% who are not in tech. I launched a Facebook event by myself on how to set up a marketing strategy using social media—over 100 women showed up. That same event, I met some of my team members who are still with me.

We opened three chapters in Mexico, reaching over 4,000 women. Now we’ve also launched chapters in Montreal and Sherbrooke, reaching over 900 women in Quebec so far. It’s something that makes my heart sing and helps me stay grounded and inspired.

Your impact is clearly shining through on so many different levels. I am curious: what is your hope for Permalution going forward—or maybe just for water harvesting overall? It sounds like you're playing in different spaces. But as you look midterm, what is your hope and aspiration there?

We have a big ambitious goal with our team: we want to impact five million people in the next five years. If we translate that into our water harvesting objectives, we aim to be collecting 100 million tons of water around the world. We want to introduce and democratize this new water source. That’s our vision for Permalution—to become the point of reference globally for cloud and fog water collection technology.

I love how concrete and ambitious that is, but it's such a vision to all work towards. I'm sure when you're rallying your team around that as well it helps. Has this always been something that you've wanted to do from the sustainability lens? It sounds like you kind of had that aha moment when you were in California. But prior to that, did you know that you wanted to be an entrepreneur—and more specifically, did you always have this tug toward something in the sustainability space?

Yes, I did know I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I didn’t grow up thinking it necessarily, but both my parents are engineers and entrepreneurs. They built one of the first internet companies in the small town we lived in in Argentina, before moving to Canada over 20 years ago. I used to see them come home late from work, go in on weekends, and I would play while they were working. I thought it was so cool. I remember looking at my mom and thinking, “she's so cool, she’s this woman telling people what to do.”

So I had my role models and it came naturally. As for the sustainability part—yes, that too. We always lived in nature-surrounded places, never in big cities. My parents were always involved in community initiatives. I’ve always been fascinated by water—big bodies of water especially. I knew I wanted to work in something related to water, I just didn’t know what. Then everything kind of made sense, and the universe brought it all together.

Such a great role model. And I’m sure you are now being a role model to many others behind you. It can certainly be super inspiring being an entrepreneur and carving out your own path—and you talked about some of the challenges earlier. I'm sure it's not always the easiest. Have you personally found any tools or tricks that help you stay elevated through it all? It sounds like maybe some of it is working with your incredible community that you built with Tech Quiero, but are there other pieces or tools that you've built up over the years?

Yes. If I look back at how I've changed over the years, I’d say I take things more calmly now. In the early days, setting up projects in Mexico or talking with potential clients, they would often ask me, “when is the boss coming?” or “when is your boss coming?”—even after I explained multiple times that I was the founder. Now, I don't take it personally. Sometimes I joke, “I can bring my dad if you want to see a male figure.” I choose my battles and preserve my energy.

Having an amazing team is another big part of it. I bounce all my decisions and thoughts off my team. I know whatever decision I make, they’ve got my back and we’re aligned in our vision. I’m really proud to have built that trust and shared purpose.

I also keep a journal of everything we accomplish. The entrepreneurial mind is always looking at what’s next, what deal is coming, and we often forget how far we’ve come. Taking a moment to say, “I wished to be where I am now,” is really powerful. Of course, it’s okay to cry, to feel overwhelmed. But after that, I ground myself, get back up, and keep going.

Well, I know I could ask you a million more questions. And I know our listeners are going to want to learn more about you and your business and your organization. Where would you recommend that they go check you out?

They can visit our website: www.permalution.com—like a permanent solution, Permalution. Also on LinkedIn, we post our latest awards, media features, updates. We’re launching a newsletter soon too, so stay tuned. They can subscribe through the website.

And I would love to pick your brain on this last question that we ask on every single episode, because I really think that you are demonstrating it and you're showing communities how to live it as well. What do you think it will take for businesses and leaders to be resilient going forward?

I think a big reality check—which is already happening more and more. In the water sector, what we see is that until people turn on the faucet and no water comes out, they don’t panic. The same goes at the governmental level. It’s usually when the impact is fully visible that resilience becomes urgent.

Now, we’re seeing national security interests, water resilience programs from governments. Unfortunately, it often takes a crisis. But hopefully, more people and companies can look at the patterns and make resilient choices before we reach that point.

Such an important, inspiring conversation. As I mentioned at the top, our listeners love hearing about disruptors in the space. I think you're doing such a beautiful job at disrupting the space and you're being recognized for it. Thank you so much for joining us—and especially thank you for everything that you're doing.

Thank you so much, Lauren. And thank you for having me. It was a pleasure being here.