Exploring Without Exploiting: Sustainable Tourism ft. Kristin Karstensdotter (LivTours)

Hello Resilience Reporters! We are recording this a couple of weeks into spring, and it feels like everyone I am talking to is in the midst of planning their summer vacation. Which is always an interesting moment for those of us in sustainability: we often know how to navigate being more environmentally friendly at home and even the office, but travel can be a little bit trickier. If this sounds like you, today’s episode is one you won’t want to miss. We’re diving deep into the world of sustainable tourism with Kristin Karstensdotter, co-owner of LivTours—a company redefining what it means to travel responsibly and authentically.

Kristin and her team at LivTours are on a mission to offer unforgettable, high-end experiences while staying true to their commitment to sustainability. From small group tours that minimize environmental impact to initiatives that give back to local communities, LivTours is proving that you can explore the world without exploiting it.

In this episode, Kristin will share how LivTours balances luxury with responsibility, educates travelers on sustainable practices, and ensures their expansion across Europe stays rooted in local economies and cultures. We’ll also uncover the secrets behind their sustainability committee, learn how travelers can spot greenwashing, and explore the benefits of traveling during shoulder seasons.

Get ready for an inspiring conversation that will leave you dreaming about your next adventure—and how to make it a meaningful one.

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[Host: Lauren Scott] Welcome back to another episode of The Resilience Report. Today is perfect timing because we're recording this in the spring, and many of us are starting to think about our summer travel plans, myself included. It's really interesting because a lot of us working in the sustainability space apply sustainability in the work that we do. We might apply sustainability in our own homes, but I know for myself, sometimes I have a hard time thinking about how we can apply sustainability when we're going on these trips and touring the world. We're trying to discover new cultures, but sometimes it's a bit hard to think about how we can be more responsible in doing so. So today, we have an excellent person to help share her expertise and get us all ready for the summer season and beyond. With that, I would love to welcome Kristin to the show. 

[Guest: Kristin Karstendotter] Thank you so much, Lauren. I'm glad I can be here.

So, to start us off, because again, I think this is a new muscle for many of us, can you talk about how at LivTours you are really thinking about these two concepts of definitely discovery but then also doing so responsibly? 

Yes, absolutely. So at LivTours, we only offer private tours and what we call semi-private tours, which is technically a small group tour of max 6 participants. So when we do our tours, you know, entering museums, wineries, or archaeological sites, we are kind of like tiptoeing around and really respect the place that we visit. Always with an expert tour guide. So you feel like you're kind of visiting their home in a way. It's not like many other tours where you're just behind a large group with a plastic earpiece, kind of just listening to a monologue, but you don't really engage with the places you're listening to.

And do you find that over the years, your customers are starting to care more and more about the concept of sustainability? Has that been changing and then just kind of how that's evolved within those conversations you're having? 

Yes and no. To be honest, personally, I would like to see that people would engage even more than they already do. Maybe it's a little bit on us as well because we at LivTours have not really promoted how we work with sustainability, also because it's something very internal and it's something we want to do for the better good, and that's how we work. It's not about any type of greenwashing or anything like that. So it's very little promotion behind it, even though there's a lot, a lot of work from all the departments in the company.

And I know one of those items specifically you mentioned right at the top are these kind of smaller groups. So I would love to just for our audience or maybe to put it two and two together as to why that makes more sense from a sustainability angle to be those smaller groups. Can you help to elaborate a little bit further? 

Yeah, someone said once a city can have tourists, but the tourists cannot have a city. And I think there's a lot about that, you know, you cannot just bombard cities or sites, but if you do it in smaller groups, basically like a family, you can respect the places you visit way more and the city can still be sustainable for locals as well and not just tourists.

What I would like to add as well is the type of products you're using as well and offering a lot of different products. So not just a highlight which kind of encourages people to just come to a city and go to, you know, for example, if you come to Rome and you just do Vatican, Coliseum but to actually have a wide spectrum of different products that you want to stay for longer which promotes slow tourism, you know also how you travel when you're in the destination.

LivTours are looking to explore a little bit further. You mentioned Rome, certainly a stronghold in Italy, you're expanding around Europe right now which is really exciting and beyond. How do you navigate that growth maybe even just locally as you're adding more and more to kind of keep that small intimate experience and then how do you manage to replicate that and still feel authentic as you're expanding? 

Yes, it involves a lot of time and of research. We are based in Rome and this is our kind of home market and this is where we personally, so me and my husband because this is a family business, this is where we really know the grounds. And, when we expand, it takes a long time because we have to do a lot of research. We have to connect with those local experts. So we don't just go to you know, Salzburg or Berlin and say hey now we want to do this and this tour. We actually consult and we find someone on the ground there that understands what kind of product, the quality we want to offer the travelers, and then we work with those locals in that destination.

And I think it's so important having that local connection and to be able to understand not just those top destinations but really what's important at the grassroots. The same can definitely be applied when it comes to sustainability. I know a lot of times for companies where we see the greatest impact are from those grassroots initiatives from our employees where there is a desire to create kind of a sustainability committee. And you mentioned that this is part of the work that you're doing. Can you share about how that started and where that group is going? 

Yes, sustainability has always been a big part of LivTours but working in tourism and I'm sure there's the same thing with many other industries as well, you kind of get into your work and it's hard to work on side projects even though you're very passionate about them. So it was very nice to see that we had so many very passionate people in the different departments that kind of started this committee and like no we want to do more, we can do so much more, let's get going, put our heads together, and actually start working and finding all these different actions that we can implement. So they were the ones who came up to me and said, this is something we want to work with, do we have the okay from you? And I was like yeah I'd love this, let's get started and now we are 10 people actually in the committee working hard. We meet almost once a week to talk about the different actions we can take and how to implement them.

And do you have representation from all different teams within your company or what does that subcommittee look like? 

Correct, we have IT, we have customer service, the operations, the ones that work with suppliers. So yeah, quality, everything which is really, really nice. So we have a great spread and that's I think one of the most important things as well when you work with sustainability. You cannot just look at one little part of your company and be like, okay this is what we're going to work on. It has to be followed through the whole company. Otherwise, you lose too many aspects. 

You're absolutely right, it's that holistic approach which I'm sure many of our listeners are trying to keep in mind when we are booking our own trips.

So, I would love to ask you a couple of questions. Maybe one: you touched on the topic of greenwashing. I know for myself, I know my industry very well and so I can see where there's greenwashing there. Are there any tips maybe for our listeners who are trying to book their travel for them to make sure that they are truly pursuing more sustainable tourism options? Is there anything that they can keep an eye out for maybe that makes them feel more comfortable that it is truly sustainable or maybe something to watch out for? 

Well, there's a lot of companies, third-party companies that give out these certificates and it's also important to know what kind of company it is because again here there's greenwashing and there's companies that say okay pay me this I might give you a certificate. 

So I think it's one of the most important things to look for is if the company has our certificates and have been approved to be working on sustainable actions. So there's different ratings. For example, we worked with a company in Canada called Green Steps and they went through all our products. They went through how we work internally. Really anything from you know what type of electricity provider we have to how we get to work and they rated us with a silver. So it was non-gold and this is what we are aspiring to get in the future. But that's something that you know travelers can look up and see what kind of rating the different companies have and if they have actually reached out to someone to get a rating. 

Otherwise, what kind of marketing do they do? Is it something they just put a social post on Earth Day? Maybe they're not that green but is it something that is constantly in the marketing and in social media to inspire people to travel more sustainably then I would say it's probably a better company. And if not just ask them when you email them and say "Hey I want to book this and that." Add a question and say "How do you work with sustainability?" Because I think that then you open up for the dialogue and you actually get to know more in detail what they do.

That's a great recommendation because then at the same time too, companies we always care most about what our customers are asking us and telling us and so that's a great way to communicate to a tourism provider that you are interested in and would like to learn more. Very smart. 

No definitely. Yeah exactly. And it would be a great thing for the company also to know okay we're working on all of this. Does our clients, is this something they actually care for or not so I think it's yeah like you say it's both ways.

So that's an excellent way to help maybe filter through some of the companies as we're booking our own travel. I'm sure there are other things too that we can keep in mind so that we can generally have more sustainable practices when touring and visiting different countries. Prior to this recording, you and I chatted a little bit and you had mentioned a couple of different ideas that I hadn't necessarily thought of as being more sustainable. One for example was leaning into shoulder season which is not something that I think everyone thinks of. I can understand it's a little bit more challenging sometimes with kids in school, that sort of thing but a lot of us who are retired or who don't have children can have these different options or maybe have a little bit of flexibility. So, if you could speak to that, that would be really helpful as well.

Yes, shoulder season is the best time to travel. And that's how we travel. Actually, we almost never travel in season but really like in February, November like those are the best time to be in a city. You get the museums for yourselves, and you find the best deals at the hotels and you do not walk around shoulder-to-shoulder which is a completely different experience. So if you can go on shoulder season, that's the best time.

And I'm sure that puts a lot less pressure on those local communities and helps kind of spread that out a little bit more and then at the same time is investing in those communities where it is their quieter period as well.

Yes, and here I just want to add that you want all the destinations to also understand that there is a shoulder season and there's also a need for people to travel in low season. For example on the Amalfi coast here in Italy, a lot of those hotel hotels they just close down in like off-season which is kind of sad to see as well and then they complain in the summer that there are too many clients you know there's too many people on the streets or too many buses. But you also have to in some ways also teach the destinations to you know stay open and welcome clients and welcome travelers all year round. And that's something we do as well because I know tour operators that say “if I cannot fill my groups I'm not going to offer them” and we just close down. But we don't do that. Like we actually promote and we give incentives for people to come and travel in in low season and shoulder seasons.

It's such a clever idea and something certainly to explore a little bit further for our listeners. And with this concept of investing in local communities, you mentioned at the top that it's important for you to have local tour guides and to get that local feedback. Can you speak a little bit more about what community involvement has looked like over the years for LivTours? 

Yes. So we started with a handful of tour guides in Italy and now we have about a thousand tour guides all over Europe. It's been a chance which is great and of course, we want to have the same connection with these thousand tour guides as we used to do with our five tour guides in Rome. So what we do is we visit them in the destinations, and we do guide trainings. And in these guide trainings we also talk about sustainability and how we work because these local tour guides, they are ambassadors for the destinations and I think it's really important that they learn and they know how they can help clients being more sustainable when they are in the destination. This could be anything from you know what souvenirs to buy like don't go to that stand where you have mass-produced souvenirs from a country far away like let's actually go to the artisan and buy something that you know he or she made from hands from local sourced material.

That's such a good point and something I think for our listeners to keep in mind too because I'm based in Montreal and it's always a little bit mind-boggling when you go to the main tourism destinations for example Old Montreal that at least half of the souvenir shops nothing is made in Montreal nothing is made in Canada and North America AND is made very cheap I suppose to be able to make it accessible to everybody. But, at the same time, it's not truly a token of the local community so that absolutely makes sense.

Yeah, when you are in a destination you know there's so many other ways also to kind of live like a local: maybe you don't take taxis everywhere. Maybe you have your guide help you download the app for bike sharing and you can explore the city on a bike instead of being in a car. And that's also that kind of connection you can get when you are on small group tours or private tours because a guide really becomes a friend and a resource and you know the expert that will show you the destination you're in. So yeah, you know really trust the tour guide and trust the expert you're visiting.

And do you see any changes happening within the tourism industry? I can only imagine since 2020 a lot keeps on evolving. Do you see any changes coming for the tourism industry in general and then do you see anything more specific to sustainability? 

In Europe, we see many more trains which is great. They're making it easier to travel by train. There's a lot of night trains these days, which is great because you can actually get on a train in Rome at 8:00 p.m and then you wake up in Vienna or Salzburg. There are direct trains from Milan to Paris. So, you can go to London from Milan. So, this I think is the future and I think people really enjoy going on a train these days. You don't have to go to the airport and you know be there two hours before and then take an airport transfer and the city that that will be a big part of the future. Also, people are smart we call it smart working in Italy but you know working from home so even if you have to go to Paris or Milan you can actually use that day just working away and then wake you know be in a new city in the evening.

I'm so jealous of the European infrastructure!

But I hope to see more changes from the travel industry and also from the airline industry because as we know there's a huge difference if you go from Canada to Rome on an old airplane or on a new airplane as so you know when you go to Expedia or one of these booking sites and you look okay how long time does it take, how much does it cost? It would be great if there was also a column there saying you know if you take this flight it's going to be this carbon footprint would be this or this or this. So you can also choose how you travel and it would be much more transparent if they would add that.

That's a brilliant add-on. I've seen it for some travel booking for corporations are allowing you to now start seeing that, but I think at scale that's definitely something that we should be thinking about. That's a great point. And as we're looking towards the future (that was more general to the industry itself) but are there any projects that LivTours has on the horizon and that you can share? 

Yes, there's a lot of great projects. We will try to guide clients that come to our website to do more sustainable choices. So hopefully next year, we will be able to show the carbon footprint and then help clients kind of guide their way of touring. Even though most of our tours are very low impact since what is walking tours and such. 

Personally, I'm also it's not sustainable but I can add it here as well is that we are adding children's books to our tours, our family tours. So I'm working with an author, an illustrator to launch a series of children's books. We have a whole category of children’s tours. So family-friendly tours with a character and the children get their pamphlets and they have to fill out questions and answers throughout the tour and then at the end, they get the prize and we would like to give them our own prize instead of again you know maybe something that has been produced somewhere else. So we are visiting all of these types of prizes and giving them our own book and our own produced pens as well.

I think that actually plays perfectly into sustainability because I do think this if you can instill an appreciation for the world and different cultures from a young age it does just create this more well-rounded next generation as well. 

Yep. Yeah No definitely. 

As an entrepreneur, things are not always super easy and can feel a little bit challenging at times. I'm sure there's all the beautiful pieces that come with that as well. But we do often like to ask entrepreneurs on the show: have you have found any tools over the years that help kind of refuel you as you're going back to the work and continuing to give (whether it's organizing all the sustainability efforts those now thousands of your different tour guides) how do you refuel yourself so that you can come back to the work? 

I love to run and do sports. I play tennis. So I think just being active and I'm sure team sports are great but I really enjoy just doing that individual sports like being outside, going for a long run or kind of thinking about something else holding the tennis racket. I love that. And of course being with family, spending time with the children and hearing their thoughts about everything. It puts life in a different perspective.

Absolutely. Is this something that you always thought that you wanted to do was to be an entrepreneur and did you always think, if so, did you always know that you wanted to have an element of sustainability or did this all just kind of evolve naturally over the years? 

I am Swedish and the area I come from in Sweden is very entrepreneurial. Actually, the city next to mine is where IKEA was founded and where they still have the headquarter. So I think it's in my blood. My mom, she had her own business. So, I think I'm just raised kind of thinking that this is you can do anything you want and being creative is a big part of life following your dreams. 

I think that has been growing in more and more the sustainability aspect. I must say having children for example puts life in a different view and it's scar,y like you know that they will not have the same life as we have now like the it's going to change completely and like even our grandchildren you know there it's a scary future. I think that definitely changed my approach to life and you know how everyone has to actually contribute. We cannot go on living as we are now. So I think it's a must.

Well, I appreciate so much everything that you're doing. I know our listeners, again all of us who are booking our travel right now, if they do want to learn more about LivTours, where would you recommend they go and check out? 

To our website which is www.livtours.com. And if you have any questions, we have a customer service team which are not based by bots. Again sustainability right? They're actually human beings living here in Europe knowing our destination like the back of their hands. So, for any question they are super happy to help. 

And we do like to end every episode with the same question which I would love to hear from you: what do you think it will take for businesses and leaders to be resilient going forward? 

I think for the sustainability aspect, I think clients have a big responsibility in that I think it's like the chicken or the egg: what comes first? Do we have to change our ways to attract clients or vice versa? And like I mentioned before, it would be nice to see that clients or travelers in this case have more interest in it. Actually, when I was in university, I remember I did one of my final thesis was in sustainable logistic solution and there I was actually looking at if the clients were the ones who were asking for these logistical solutions or it was the companies that were giving these green logistical solutions. The result was that it's the company who offers them but the clients did not really ask for them, so I think it has to be that balance and that hand in hand of course to offer it. But also to ask for it, to ask hard questions and being you know on the toes of companies because it's a shared interest and it's a shared responsibility for both parts.

Well, thank you so much for everything you've shared today. I definitely realized that, for myself, I can do more as the customer to ask those questions to have those conversations. And again, I think a lot of our listeners care about it in our work, we care about it in our homes, but now there's a great opportunity and very low lift on our parts for us to just ask the questions, to dig a little bit further and to hopefully partner with organizations like LivTours. So, thank you so much for everything you've shared today!

Thank you Lauren.